The Instinct to Kill

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Deep down, are we all hunters?

 
“I was curious about this ancient ritual — this masculine tradition where you go into the woods, just you and your dad, to go hunting. And you come out changed, somehow. Maybe more grown up.”
— Sam Anderson
 

Season 3 // Episode 6

When Sam Anderson’s father invited him to go hunting for the first time, Sam was worried. What if he couldn’t bring himself to pull the trigger? And conversely, what if he could? What would that say about him?

On this episode, Sam takes us into the woods of New Jersey and explores the emotional complexity of taking the life of an animal.

This story first aired in 2017. It won a national award — first place for Best Independent Podcast — from Public Radio News Directors, Inc.

Click here to read the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

Story and sound design by Sam Anderson

Script editing by Willow Belden

Music includes selections from AudioBlocks and Blue Dot Sessions

Additional Links

Out There is a proud member of Hub & Spoke

Support Out There on Patreon

Sam Anderson’s upcoming series, entitled Crooked City Season 2: The Emerald Triangle, comes out Nov. 7.

 

This episode sponsored by

 

PeakVisor

Athletic Greens

Get a FREE one-year supply of Vitamin D and 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase at athleticgreens.com/outthere

 

Too Poor to Dream?

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How do you build a life of adventure when you’re barely scraping by?

for years, CHARLSIE SHAVER has yearned FOR A LIFE in the outdoors — but forging a new path hasn’t been straightforward. (PHOTO BY CHARLSIE SHAVER)

 
“It can be hard to want stability and freedom at the same time.”
— Charlsie Shaver
 

Season 3 // Episode 5

We often hear that “the outdoors is free.” But for Charlsie Shaver, just driving to a trailhead was often cost-prohibitive; hitting the road to explore America’s wild places was a luxury she could only dream of.

On this episode, Charlsie explores what it takes to build the life you want. How do you balance the need for stability with a thirst for freedom? And how do you keep dreaming, when you can barely pay the rent?

This story first aired in 2019.

Click here to read the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

Story and narration by Charlsie Shaver

Editing and sound design by Willow Belden

Music includes selections from AudioBlocks and Blue Dot Sessions

Additional Links

Follow Charlsie on Instagram @chickadeenatives and @mydestinyisunbound

Check out Charlsie’s native plant nursery here

Support Out There on Patreon

 

This episode sponsored by

 

PeakVisor

Athletic Greens

Get a FREE one-year supply of Vitamin D and 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase at athleticgreens.com/outthere

 

Selfless Acts

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Why are some people overly generous?

BILL APPEL TALKS WITH A TRAVELER AT HIS AID STATION ALONG THE COLORADO TRAIL. (PHOTO BY WILLOW BELDEN)

 
“I think even the most selfless people ultimately may be doing it for their own ego.”
— Bill Appel
 

Season 3 // Episode 4

Bill Appel has devoted his retirement years to helping strangers.

He’s a “trail angel,” which means he hangs out on long-distance trails (the Appalachian Trail, the Continental Divide Trail, etc.) and brings treats to thru-hikers. He gives them food and water, offers rides into town to resupply, and cheers them on at some of the most demoralizing points in their journeys.

It’s a year-round operation, and he does it all for free.

On this episode, we pay a visit to one of his aid stations, and we explore what makes a person act so selflessly. (Hint: it’s probably not what you’d expect).

This story first aired in 2018, and it won a gold medal for best independent podcast from Public Radio News Directors Incorporated, or PRNDI.

Click here to read the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

Story and sound design by Willow Belden

Story editing by Becky Jensen

Music includes selections from AudioBlocks and Blue Dot Sessions

Additional Links

Support Out There on Patreon

 

This episode sponsored by

 

PeakVisor

Kula Cloth

For 15% off your Kula Cloth order, click here and enter the promo code “outtherepodcast15” at checkout.

 

Blue Dive

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Letting go of success — and finding your bliss

Tiffany Duong on a dive (Photo courtesy Tiffany Duong)

 
“I’m determined to keep creating a life I don’t need a vacation from. ”
— Tiffany Duong
 

Season 3 // Episode 3

Tiffany Duong had achieved the pinnacle of success: she’d finished law school, worked for a big firm in LA, and traveled as much as she could. But she was miserable.

Then she went scuba diving in the Galapagos, and everything changed. Her story is about letting go of your safety net, embracing the unknown, and finding bliss.

This story first aired in 2018.

Click here to read the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

Story by Tiffany Duong

Editing and sound design by Willow Belden

Production assistance from Sara Hossainai

Music and sound effects include selections from AudioBlocks and Martin Erdtmann

Additional Links

Support Out There on Patreon

Follow Tiffany on Instagram and Twitter

 

This episode sponsored by

 

PeakVisor

Kula Cloth

For 15% off your Kula Cloth order, click here and enter the promo code “outtherepodcast15” at checkout.

 

Failure In Success

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Why reaching a goal can make you miserable

Willow Belden leaves an aid station to cycle the final 18 miles of the Laramie Enduro in 2015 (photo by Leigh Paterson)

 
“Succeeding at something doesn’t make it worth doing.”
— Willow Belden
 

Season 3 // Episode 2

In 2015, Willow Belden signed up for a 70-mile mountain bike race called the Laramie Enduro. She had always liked big athletic challenges. But this time, pushing her limits turned out to be a mistake.

On this episode, she shares her story. It's about trying to prove yourself — and learning when to say, “No.”

This story first aired in 2015, and it received a national award from Public Radio News Directors Inc. (second place for best independent podcast).

Click here to read the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

Story and sound design by Willow Belden

Editing by Leigh Paterson

Music includes selections from AudioBlocks

Additional Links

Support Out There on Patreon

Laramie Range Epic (formerly known as the Laramie Enduro)

 

This episode sponsored by

 

PeakVisor

 

Moral Compass

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How do you decide whether to leave someone for dead?

MYLES OSBORNE'S CLIMBING GUIDE, DAN MAZUR (RED COAT), AND CLIMBER LINCOLN HALL (ORANGE) SHORTLY AFTER OSBORNE'S TEAM DISCOVERED HALL ON THE MOUNTAIN (PHOTO BY ANDREW BRASH)

 
“As human beings, we tend to convince ourselves of certain things, and then we look for the evidence to back up the point that we want to make.”
— Myles Osborne
 

Season 3 // Episode 1

When Myles Osborne set out to climb Mt. Everest, he knew he was up against a dangerous mountain. What he didn't consider was that it might not be his own life on the line.

Producer Phoebe Flanigan brings us Myles' story, exploring how we make moral decisions — like whether or not to help someone who's nearly dead.

This story first aired in 2017.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

Story by Phoebe Flanigan

Editing by Willow Belden

Sound design by Chema Flores

Additional Links

Support Out There on Patreon

 

This episode sponsored by

 

PeakVisor

 

TRAILER: Nature's Nostalgia

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As the world reopens, and you return to the things you once loved, let Out There be your sound track.

Our summer season will fuel your adventures with award-winning narratives and beloved fan favorites from the early days of Out There.

Each episode will sweep you into nature, invite you to think big, and offer inspiration for living your best life. Here’s a preview.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

Special thanks to Jessica Taylor and Sheeba Joseph for editorial assistance on this trailer.

BONUS: Adult-Onset Hunting

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A guest episode from The Modern West podcast

Jessi Johnson, the founder of Artemis, teaches a woman how to load bullets into a hunting rifle at an all-women’s outdoor camp called BOW (short for Becoming An Outdoor Woman). Photo by Patrick Wine

The number of Americans hunting and fishing is declining, but women are bucking the trend.

On this guest episode from The Modern West podcast, journalist Melodie Edwards finds a sisterhood at an all-women hunting camp—and catches her first fish with her dad.

 

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

We’re looking for a marketing coordinator!

Out There is developing a new podcast series for children, and we’re looking for an enthusiastic person to join our team on a freelance basis to help us get the word out.

Applications due June 5, 2022.

Apply Now

Beach Bum

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I thought I was a mountain mama

Padre Island National Seashore (Photo by Bo Jensen)

 
“I didn’t just feel like I had to act as both mother and father. I felt like I was both.”
— Bo Jensen
 

Season 2 // Episode 8

It’s healthy to know who you are. But sometimes, defining yourself too rigidly can be problematic.

On this episode, Bo Jensen takes us from the Gulf of Mexico to the Camino de Santiago and explores what happens when you stop forcing yourself to choose a single identity.

It’s a story about embracing the totality of who you are — and falling in love with new environments, one beach at a time.

Episode Transcript

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

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Share your thoughts on the spring season & get 30% off Out There merch.

Take Survey
 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • Story by Bo Jensen

  • Story editing and sound design by Willow Belden

  • Music includes selections from Blue Dot Sessions and Storyblocks

Additional Links

 

Sponsors

 

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MPowerd

Take 25% off your purchase at mpowerd.com with promo code “GetOutThere”

 

Never Enough

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I thought I needed more from my relationship — and from nature

Shi Shi Beach (Photo by Paul Barach)

 
“I still wonder if there was something I could have said — some magic combination of words that, when put together the right way at the right time, could have kept her in this world.”
— Paul Barach
 

Season 2 // Episode 7

When we lose a loved one, many of us seek healing from the outdoors. But what happens when nature doesn’t cooperate — when the weather is bad, and your happy place is miserable? 

Today’s story takes us to “the most beautiful beach in Washington State” and explores what can we learn about grief and acceptance when nature is at its ugliest.

Read the full episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • Story by Paul Barach

  • Story editing by Forrest Wood and Willow Belden

  • Sound design by Willow Belden

  • Music includes selections from Blue Dot Sessions and Storyblocks

Additional Links

 
 

Help us shape our next season!

Take our poll to vote for the stories you’d like to hear.

Vote Now
 
 

This episode sponsored by

 

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[Un]Natural Selection

A special season of Points North from Interlochen Public Radio

 

Measuring Up

/

I thought if I pushed myself harder, things would get easier

Christine Reed on the Colorado Trail (Photo courtesy Christine Reed)

 
“Now that I’m not always trying to get there, I can ... enjoy being here.”
— Christine Reed
 

Season 2 // Episode 6

It’s easy to measure our achievements based on what other people are doing. But how do you know what you should really expect from yourself?

This episode takes us from a mountain in Arkansas to an attempted thru-hike on the Appalachian Trail and explores how much better life can be when you realize your shortcomings might not be your fault.

Christine Reed has the story.

Read the episode transcript here.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • Story by Christine Reed

  • Editing and sound design by Willow Belden

  • Music includes selections from AudioBlocks and Blue Dot Sessions

Additional Resources

 

Sponsors

SaltStick

For 20% off your purchase at saltstick.com, enter the promo code OUTTHERE at checkout

PeakVisor

Kula Cloth

Save 15% on your Kula Cloth order with promo code “outtherepodcast15”

Escape

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I thought I needed a break from my problems

Paris McMillian participates in Live Action Role Play at Dammerung (Photo courtesy Paris McMillian)

 
“I feel very sure of myself and very confident. ... I never thought I would get there. It didn’t seem like something that was in the cards for me, but it happened.”
— Paris McMillian
 

Season 2 // Episode 5

We often go outside to get away from our problems. But escapism has its limits.

On this episode, we share the story of how Live Action Role Play, or LARP, taught one woman the importance of confronting your troubles head on.

Erin Phillips brings us the story.

Read the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Upcoming Events

Open Mic Night

March 31, 2022

5:30 p.m. PT // 8:30 p.m. ET

Online // Join from anywhere

Save My Seat
 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • Story by Erin Phillips

  • Editing and sound design by Willow Belden

  • Music includes selections from Blue Dot Sessions and Storyblocks

Additional Resources

 

Sponsors

PeakVisor

[Un] Natural Selection

Powder7

Pamper Your Brain

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I thought it was a waste of time to do nothing

Photos courtesy Ziyi Xu

 
“We all know not to over-exhaust our body, to get a massage or do some yoga when we don’t feel well. The same should go for our brains.”
— Ziyi Xu
 

Season 2 // Episode 4

Ziyi Xu was addicted to her smartphone.

It had started as a way to educate herself and keep up with her peers. But it soon took over her life, ruining her focus and her productivity. Then, one night in Texas, she tried stargazing.

On this episode, Ziyi tells the story of how she kicked the smartphone habit and got her creativity back.

Read the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • Story and sound design by Ziyi Xu

  • Editing by Willow Belden

  • Music includes selections from Blue Dot Sessions and Epidemic Sound.

Additional Resources

 

Upcoming Events

Virtual Open Mic Night

March 31, 2022 // 5:30 p.m. PST, 8:30 p.m. EST

Save My Seat
 

Episode Sponsors

BONUS: Climate Language

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How the words we use can change our impact on the environment

 
“The loss of linguistic diversity happens in the same places as where species decline.”
— Clare Wiley
 

Last year, the term ‘climate crisis’ was added to the Oxford English Dictionary, along with terms like ‘climate strikes,’ ‘single-use,’ ‘carbon capture’ — and even ‘smart-charging.’

The words we use to talk about the environment are evolving. But could they motivate us to take action?  

On this bonus episode, we bring you a guest story from the podcast Living Planet about the relationship between language and the environment. Plus, we share a behind-the-scenes conversation with one of Living Planet’s hosts, Sam Baker.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

Additional Resources

 

THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSOR

 
 

America’s Best Idea?

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I thought I knew what a national park was

Denali National Park (Photo by Sam Baker)

 
“These parks are not untouched land. ... People have been here forever, and this land has been touched forever. And those people are still here.”
— Kiana Carlson
 

Season 2 // Episode 3

National Parks are often referred to as “America’s best idea.” And there’s a lot to love about them. But they also have a complicated history — a history of broken promises, displacement of indigenous people, and genocide.

And that history is not over.

So how do we move forward? Is there a way to right the wrongs of the past? Can we protect our wild spaces in a way that is also socially just?

This episode comes to us from environmental journalist Sam Baker, who's struggled for a long time with the paternalism of environmental movements in the US. But she sees a way forward that offers hope. She takes us from a young national park in Germany to Denali in Alaska and explores how we can start taking steps to create a better future.

Read the episode transcript here.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • Story by Sam Baker

  • Editing and sound design by Willow Belden

  • Music includes selections from AudioBlocks and Blue Dot Sessions

Additional Resources

 

Upcoming Events

Virtual Happy Hour

March 9, 2022 // 5 p.m. PST, 8 p.m. EST

Become an Out There patron by March 4 to receive an invitation.

Existing patrons: You’re automatically invited!

Become a Patron

Virtual Open Mic Night

March 31, 2022 // 5:30 p.m. PST, 8:30 p.m. EST

Save My Seat
 

Episode Sponsors

Pandemic Sundays

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I thought the only place to find peace and community was at church

(PHoto courtesy Angie Chatman)

 
“As an African American woman, in an all-white upscale neighborhood, I am conspicuous. ”
— Angie Chatman
 

Season 2 // Episode 2

Church was Angie Chatman’s happy place. It was a space not only for reflection and worship, but also for community and inner peace. So when the pandemic began and she couldn’t attend services in person, there was a big void in Angie’s life.

Then, a friend suggested they go walking together. As a Black woman, Angie had never felt safe outdoors. But she agreed to give it a try.

On this episode, Angie shares her story. She takes us through the streets of Boston, unpacking her trepidation and ultimately discovering a new and surprising way to meet her emotional needs.

Read the full episode transcript here.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • Story by Angie Chatman

  • Editing and sound design by Willow Belden

  • Music includes selections from AudioBlocks and Blue Dot Sessions

Additional Resources

 

Upcoming Events

Virtual Happy Hour

March 9, 2022 // 5 p.m. PST, 8 p.m. EST

Become an Out There patron by March 4 to receive an invitation.

Existing patrons: You’re automatically invited!

Virtual Open Mic Night

March 31, 2022 // 5:30 p.m. PST, 8:30 p.m. EST

Sign up to attend!

 

Episode Sponsors

 

PeakVisor

Powder7

 

Indoor Kid

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I thought the only way out of depression was to become a different person

At age 20, Sarah Dealy attended a Wilderness Therapy program in Utah (inset). Eight years later, she decided to go on a solo backpacking trip on the Colorado Trail (background). // PHotos courtesy Sarah Dealy

 
“My life has been significantly better since I accepted that this is the brain, the personality, and the body that I have.”
— Sarah Dealy
 

Season 2 // Episode 1

Sarah Dealy was not outdoorsy. But at age 20, during a severe bout of depression, she enrolled in a wilderness therapy program. By the end of the program, she wanted to become an “outdoor girl.”

But becoming the outdoorswoman of her dreams didn’t come naturally. Sarah was an indoor kid at heart. She disliked many of the activities she imagined her outdoorsy self doing.

On this episode, Sarah takes us from the desert of Utah to the mountains of Colorado and explores what happens when the person you think you want to be doesn’t mesh with the person you are.

Read the episode transcript here.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • This episode was written, produced and sound designed by Sarah Dealy.

  • Editing by Willow Belden.

  • Music includes selections from Blue Dot Sessions.

Additional Resources

  • You can see more of Sarah Dealy’s work here. Sign up here to be notified when her series about Troubled Teen wilderness programs comes out.

  • If you are a parent who is considering sending your kid to a wilderness program, Sarah recommends the book Help at Any Cost by Maia Szalavitz.

  • The apps Jessica Taylor recommended in this week’s Out There Favorites are Hip Camp, Campendium, and Harvest Hosts. In addition, here’s a little video Jessica made about Campendium, and here’s a Mother’s Day piece where they featured her.

 

Upcoming Events

Sign up to perform!

We’ll be co-hosting an open mic night with our friends at Kula Cloth on March 31.

If you’d like to perform, sign up here by Feb. 4.

Virtual Happy Hour

Celebrate Out There’s 7th birthday with us!

Become an Out There patron by March 4 to receive an invitation.

Existing patrons: You’re automatically invited!

 

Episode Sponsors

 

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Powder7

 

The Gift That Keeps On Giving

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A bonus episode about how nature has surprised us

Clockwise from upper left: Tiffany Duong, Ashley White, Mary Gordon, Shannon Prince, Shelby Stanger, Evan Phillips, Nicole Christina, Tessa Peters

 
“I might not be able to climb mountains, but I can still appreciate them ... whether I’m camping, sitting quietly by a river, or watching a squirrel just run around in the trees. ”
— Evan Phillips, Host of The Firn Line
 

Think of this episode as a pre-season treat.

The theme of our upcoming season is “Things I Thought I Knew,” and before it starts, we wanted to let Out There community members weigh in on how nature has shifted their perspectives.

We reached out to listeners and fellow podcasters, and we asked: “What is one way your relationship with nature has changed in a way that has surprised you?”

The answers we received were thought-provoking, inspiring, and hopeful, and on this episode, we’re sharing some of our favorites.

Click here for the episode transcript.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

 

Upcoming Events

Sign up to perform!

We’ll be co-hosting an open mic night with our friends at Kula Cloth on March 31.

If you’d like to perform, sign up here by Feb. 4.

 

Virtual Happy Hour

Celebrate Out There’s 7th birthday with us!

Become an Out There patron by March 4 to receive an invitation.

Existing patrons: You’re automatically invited!

 

Episode Notes

Credits

  • This episode was produced by Sheeba Joseph.

  • Editing and Sound Design by Willow Belden.

  • Music from Blue Dot Sessions and Audio Blocks.

Contributors

  • Ashley White is an Out There ambassador and fly fishing guide.

  • Mary Gordon is an Out There listener.

  • Tessa Peters works for the Land Institute, a nonprofit focused on creating an agriculture system that provides ample food without all the harm to the planet. 

  • Tiffany Duong is an Out There ambassador, and she has lately been doing more expeditions and the media around them. She is helping to demystify what it takes to go on an expedition, who can go (spoiler: anyone), and making it more accessible for everyone.

  • Evan Phillips is host of the podcast The Firn Line.

  • Nicole Christina is host of the podcast Zestful Aging.

  • Shannon Prince is an Out There listener and author of Tactics for Racial Justice: Building an Antiracist Organization and Community. Out There listeners can buy it at a 20% discount with the code FLY21. Shannon has also contributed a story to Out There; you can listen to it here.

  • Shelby Stanger is host of the podcast Wild Ideas Worth Living.

 

Things I Thought I Knew

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Season Trailer

Since 2015, we’ve been bringing you outdoor stories that help you make sense of your life and your world. This February, we’re launching a new season.

The season’s stories will still be the kind of personal, introspective narratives you know and love. But there will be a common theme: “Things I thought I knew.” Each episode, we’ll share a story about an outdoor experience that changed someone’s understanding about themselves, their humanity, or their world.

Here’s a sneak peak!

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

Special thanks to Sheeba Joseph for editorial assistance on this trailer.

Fear and Leadership in the Mountains

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What fear is trying to teach us, and how it can help us as leaders

Lindsey Falkenburg (Photo courtesy of She Explores)

 
“Vulnerability is always a virtue.”
— Lindsey Falkenburg
 

How many times have we been told the story of the fearless leader — in work, in politics, in the mountains? When the stakes are high, it’s natural to place our confidence in strength and certainty. To turn to the leader and believe that they have no doubt, that they’ve built up a kind of resilience that will carry us all to safety.

This is a guest episode from the podcast She Explores. It isn’t about how to become a fearless leader in the mountains. Nor is it about how to overcome your fear, or even how to harness it. But it is about listening to what fear is trying to teach us. It’s an opportunity to consider what kind of leader you need, as well as the one you might want to be.

Follow Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

This story was produced by Gale Straub. It first aired on She Explores in 2020.

Music includes works by Gracie & Rachel via Music Bed.

Featured in this episode: Lindsey Falkenburg, Ashley Abril, Kristen Jones, and Boealps

 

THIS EPISODE SPONSORED BY