Spotlight on Jenny Anderson

BY CARA SCHAEFER

As winter turns to spring, one thing I always seem to reflect on is how to get outside more the next time it gets cold. For some inspiration, we spoke with Jenny Anderson about ice fishing, adjusting adventures to better suit young children, and making the most out of your winter. 

Photo courtesy of Jenny Anderson.

OUT THERE: When it comes to spending time outdoors, how do you approach the winter season?

JENNY ANDERSON: I’m all about embracing the winter season, especially here in Minnesota. I make it a point to enjoy every moment I can. I think unlike a lot of people, when it starts to drop below freezing is when I’m most excited. 

OT: Forgive me for the pun, but what hooked you on ice fishing?

JA: It began when I was reporting in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. I was on the outdoor beach, and I was covering a story about ice fishing. I had no idea what ice fishing was about; I just knew the stereotypical “grumpy old man sitting on the bucket” scenario of ice fishing. But then I went out and I started knocking on these fish houses and talking to people about the sport and why they’re out there. People were just having a great time ice fishing, so I was curious about it. 

I met my husband soon after, and he was discovering ice fishing as well. So we went out and bought our first auger together and went out to one of the local lakes, where I caught my first decent-sized walleye, and after that I was hooked. 

OT: Do you have a greatest fishing tale?

JA: Lake Mille Lacs is one of the bigger lakes here in Minnesota and we were out sleeping on the ice in our fish house. We have these things called rattle reels with bells in them, and we send them down the hole before we go to bed with bait on it. And then when the fish takes the bait, it starts ringing. So I woke up around 5 a.m. to the alarm clock known as the “rattle reel,” and there was a big fish on it. Both my husband and I didn’t have our contacts in, so we’re wearing our glasses and trying to figure out what’s going on in the dark. I reeled it in. It felt really heavy, and I didn’t want to lose it, so I was carefully just working at pulling this big fish up for like fifteen minutes. Finally I got it up, but the hole had frozen over because it was so cold! 

So my husband’s working at reopening up this hole with a crowbar, and I could see the fish right below us, and I was like, “Ah! I’m going to hold on to it as long as I can!” He eventually boiled some water and spilled it down the hole, so it was just big enough to get the head of the fish through. I was able to shimmy it up through the hole, and it was this beautiful, 30-inch walleye. Just a fish of a lifetime. I took some photos and then sent it back down the hole, because it was just too big and beautiful to keep. It was definitely memorable. My favorite kind of alarm clock to wake up to. 

OT: I know you’ve had some like additions to the family lately. How do you adjust adventures to better accommodate young children?

JA: Yeah, I have two kids. One is one year old, and the other was born not too long ago, about a month now. I remember when we first started talking about having kids, my biggest concern was that I’m going to lose myself. I’m doing all these fun things every weekend, and now that’s all about to change, and the outdoors is not going to be a priority anymore. At least that’s what I thought. 

We made it a point, though, to say, “You know what? We’re going to make sure these kids fit into our lifestyle while we adjust to meeting their needs as well.” We realized within a couple weeks of my son being born that we needed to get out of the house, so we packed up our bags with this three week old and went up to the cabin and went fishing off the dock. Just really simple, easy, manageable outdoor activities. It was much needed for my sanity. 

Ever since then, we realized that if you can do it with a newborn, you can definitely do it as they get older and older. You can still do the activities that you love, you just have to adjust your expectations. You can’t spend as much time as you used to outdoors. That’s the reality of it. Like when we were ice fishing, we’d usually be there for the whole weekend, on the ice, 24 hours for three full days, but with little ones you just have to do a few hours outside and then come back home. 

Photo courtesy of Jenny Anderson.

OT: What practical advice would you give someone looking to get outdoors more in the winter?

JA: I think the most practical advice is to wear the right gear. Base layers, synthetic or wool socks, and the warmest boots possible. And then the right outer layers. Just being warm makes all the difference. If you’re comfortable, you’re going to last a lot longer outdoors on the ice and snow. I always make sure my son is well dressed, and we always bring backup clothes in case he gets wet. Same for myself: I bring an extra pair of boots just in case. You never know if your foot will fall into an ice hole!

Photo courtesy of Jenny Anderson.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find Jenny Anderson online on Instagram, Facebook, Youtube, and her website.

An Earth Day Playlist

Podcast episodes about natural disasters, and the meaning of ‘home’

BY SHEEBA JOSEPH

Whether you’re new to our show or have been listening for a while, you know that here at Out There, we are great fans of stories that humanize a person’s perspective and experience, and that challenge us to consider viewpoints unlike our own.

After experiencing a year that has drastically changed the way we connect with one another — whether that be because we spent the year away from the ones we love, or because we spent way more time with the ones we love — our experience of ‘home’ has taken on a deeper and richer meaning for each of us. 

Pandemic aside, that notion of home or community, which anchors us all to the ones we care about, is what fueled us this Earth Day, to consider what “home” means for those affected when a natural disaster devastates your community. After the Storm is a playlist that explores why we live where we live, as the climate warms. For although climate affects us all, how it affects us is dependent on where we live. 

1 - WHY DO WE STAY? | OUT THERE PODCAST

In “Why Do We Stay,” Out There explores what ties Mexican immigrant Mauro Ibarra to an island off the coast of North Carolina, when his extended family is far away and his professional skills could be put to use anywhere. 

2 - THE SKY IS FALLING | INHERITED

For 15 year-old Jenna, in the episode “The Sky Is Falling” from Inherited, her oceanside community in New York is the only home she’s ever known. But nearly a decade after  Hurricane Sandy, her community is still struggling to rebuild. 

3 - CLIMATE MIGRATION | OUTSIDE/IN

The question explored in the episode “Climate Migration” by Outside/In, is so much more complicated than just finding the best place to live. This episode asks: how should communities/places prepare for the wave of climate migrants that are headed their way? And how do you navigate these questions when the communities that are merging have very different racial and cultural roots? 

4 & 5 — DESTINY | FLOODLINES & PREMIUM ELEVATION | THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD

In episodes like “Destiny” (Floodlines) and “Premium Elevation” (There Goes the Neighborhood: Season 3), you’ll be introduced to the term climate gentrification and will get to witness how that plays out in communities of color in Louisiana and Florida’s Little Haiti, as opposed to places like Miami that are populated by more affluent residents.

6 - IF MIAMI WILL BE UNDERWATER, WHY IS CONSTRUCTION STILL BOOMING? | HOW TO SAVE A PLANET

In Gimlet’s How to Save a Planet episode entitled, “If Miami Will Be Underwater, Why Is Construction Still Booming?” you’ll hear about the flip side — how the Miami community is seeking to address future flooding by building storm drains (and charging forward with luxury seaside developments).

If you’re up for longer listens, we definitely recommend you checking out the entire series of Floodlines or the entire third season of There Goes the Neighborhood, as there are such great gems in both.

Happy Listening! And as always, don’t be shy to spread the audio love to those you love!

Spotlight on Daniel Shinwoo Kim

BY CARA SCHAEFER

If you happen to meet Daniel Shinwoo Kim on top of a summit, there’s a decent chance he’ll be sporting a Korean American flag. And possibly a full kitchen set up. Through a mix of education, representation, and delicious snacks, Daniel is hoping to inspire YOU to go out in nature. 

Photo courtesy of Daniel Shinwoo Kim

OUT THERE: Why is inspiring others to go out into nature important to you?

DANIEL SHINWOO KIM: It’s important because I believe everyone has a passion for nature. When you’re a child everyone wants to go outdoors and feel the dirt. But then, I guess as we get older we become more ingrained in the city culture. We lose touch with what we experience as children.

I just love bringing that innate curiosity back to people. As a wildlife conservation major, I’m really passionate about the outdoors and want others to see why. I was able to get people outside who would tell me, “I will never go on a hike. I only go once a year and that’s all I do.” And now that person goes hiking with me maybe twelve times a year. 

OT: I noticed that one thing that is really important to you is more representation. What would better representation of Asian Americans in the outdoors have meant to you growing up?

DSK: Personally, as someone growing up in America, I would never see people of my likeness going out into the outdoors. It might have been a passive thing, but that prevented me from wanting to go out into the outdoors. I was like, “Oh, going outside and hiking and camping — that’s just what a typical Caucasian American would do. Asian Americans usually just stay at home and study to become doctors or engineers or all that. We don’t have time for going out into the outdoors.” 

As I was getting older and seeing figures like Steve Irwin and David Attenborough talking about nature I was like, “You know, maybe I, too, can be a piece of that.” So now what I try to do is inspire the next generation by showing them the outdoors is not just for the standard, stereotypical Caucasian American, but rather for everyone. Representation is important because it inspires people that are like you to see themselves in your shoes and go out as well. That’s why I’m always proud of my Korean American flag and I’m always taking Asian Americans outside.

Photo courtesy of Daniel Shinwoo Kim

OT: When it comes to outdoor adventures, what’s one of your favorite memories? 

DSK: My favorite memory has to be my first time climbing Mount St. Helens. We started at one in the morning, and as we were climbing up it was entirely dark. So we’re halfway up the mountain, it was five o’clock or so, and all of a sudden everything started getting this beautiful orange color. And from the horizon I saw this most beautiful sunrise surrounding the whole landscape, after being surrounded by darkness and snow this whole climb. After that, I was hooked. Mountaineering became one of my passions.

OT: So I saw that at one point you carried a grill and an ice box up a mountain. What, in your opinion, are the best hiking snacks?

Photo courtesy of Daniel Shinwoo Kim

DSK: Spam musubi might be my personal favorite. They’re filled with carbohydrates, fats, oils, saltiness, and so that’s actually like a really perfect hiking food. It’s not too heavy either. But whenever I take a person out hiking, especially for their first time, I’m like, “Alright, you’re on trail-mix level. The more hikes you do, and the more difficult a hike is, that’s when I’ll start treating you to all this great food.” That definitely motivates people to go out with the energy for hiking. 

OT: You appear to be cooking some full meals up there and I, with my pack of fruit snacks, am duly impressed.

DSK: Yeah, it seems the more ridiculous my food items go, the more attention it seems to get, which is an interesting thing, but if it inspires more people to go out into the outdoors, I’m good.

OT: After 2020, I know a lot of us are tentatively looking forward to future adventures. What’s your wildest outdoor dream?

DSK: I think one of my big bucket-list adventures would be going to Antarctica in the summer and doing research with the penguins down there, spreading conservation and science. The Emperor Penguins are popular, but I really like the small penguins. I’m a fan of the miniature. 

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find Daniel Shinwoo Kim on Instagram @daniel_shinwoo.

Be our summer intern!

Out There seeks (remote) production intern for summer 2021

Photo by Soundtrap on Unsplash

This internship is an excellent opportunity to work with an award-winning podcast team and develop your audio and storytelling skills.

Think of it as a mentorship, where you’ll collaborate one-on-one with the show’s creator, Willow Belden, and learn what’s entailed in running a professional media company.

If past interns are any indication, you’ll walk away with highly marketable skills, impressive additions to your portfolio, and the confidence to thrive in a competitive industry. Nearly all of our past interns have landed full-time audio and/or journalism jobs after completing our internship.

“I found a job pretty much right away, after working for [Out There], and the skills that I gained from that internship were what set me apart from other applicants. Usually, you have to take quite a few internships before really being noticed, but the work that I did with Out There was kind of all that I needed.”

— Aja Simpson, former Out There intern

About Out There

Hosted by former Wyoming Public Radio reporter Willow Belden, Out There is an award-winning show that explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors.

What do we mean by “outdoors”? Anything outside your door! We believe the outdoors is for all, regardless of where you were raised, the color of your skin or anything else about you, because if you've stepped outside for any reason, you have a connection to nature. We seek to celebrate those connections and amplify stories that are often sidelined in mainstream media.

What are our stories like? Here are a few examples:

• “8 Miles in NYC” shows how the simple act of walking to work helped one young woman learn to belong in a new city.

• “A Series of Unlikely Events” is a love story between a kayaker and a rock climber, which explores whether you should take a chance on someone, even if things seem too good to be true.

• In “Out of the Shadows,” a trans woman sets out to climb the highest mountain on every continent, in order to shift the narrative about trans people.

Most Out There episodes take the form of narratives, with highly edited scripts and detailed sound design. Occasionally, we also run interviews when the subject matter is spot on.

Audio mix for an Out There episode

About the Internship

“My experience working with Willow ... gave me so much confidence, during a time when the job market was really, really competitive.”

— Anmargaret Warner, former Out There intern

We want you to be doing work you’re excited about, so we’ll tailor the internship to you, based on your goals, interests and skills. Regardless, here are some things you can expect to try your hand at:

• Story selection & editing — evaluating pitches, developing story ideas, pre-interviewing guests, booking interviews, editing scripts

• Audio production — cutting tape, editing interviews, doing sound design/mixing (this would require basic knowledge of audio editing software, such as Adobe Audition, though we will work with you to hone your skills)

• Producing your own story — if you pitch us a story that’s a good fit for Out There, we’ll work with you to develop it. So far, all of our past interns have produced long-form narrative stories that have aired on the show.

If there’s something you could bring to the table that’s not listed above, but that you’re excited to work on, please let us know! We love experimenting with new ideas.

scripts for Out There go through multiple rounds of edits before production begins (Photo by Willow Belden)

What You’ll Get

You will receive a $500 stipend for the semester.

We are an independent show on a shoestring budget, and we can’t pay as much as we would like to. But we work hard to make the experience valuable for you. It’s important to us that you receive more from the experience (in terms of learning, skills, and published works for your portfolio) than we get from you in labor. We see you as an integral part of the team, and look forward to helping you put your mark on the show.

In addition, if you produce a story of your own for Out There, we will compensate you for that as well.

Time Commitment

The internship runs from early June - late August 2021 (exact dates are flexible). We ask that you be ready to devote an average of 8 hours per week to it. You’ll have weekly meetings with Out There Host Willow Belden via phone or video chat; outside of that, you can set your own schedule.

About You

Diversity is key to our success as a podcast. Our mission is to amplify voices that are often sidelined in outdoor media, and explore the myriad ways in which humans engage with — and learn from — nature.

To succeed in that mission, our team needs to encompass a wide array of perspectives and backgrounds. We want Out There to be an environment in which all perspectives are heard and valued, and no matter who you are or what your background, we promise to support you. 

We also recognize that the most talented storytellers sometimes come from nontraditional backgrounds. You don’t need a degree in journalism or a portfolio of audio stories to be on our team (although those are great too). We have accepted interns in the past who lacked formal training as writers/producers, but who have made outstanding contributions to the show nonetheless.

What matters is that you have a passion for storytelling, an insatiable curiosity, and a desire to learn and grow.

To Apply

Send a resume and cover letter to willow@outtherepodcast.com by April 30, with “Internship Application” in the subject line.

Please make sure to highlight relevant experience/skills, and tell us how you would help us fulfill our mission of amplifying underrepresented voices on Out There. If you’ve done previous audio work, please provide a link to a story that showcases your skills.

Spotlight on Rosalie Haizlett

BY CARA SCHAEFER

When it comes to exploring the outdoors, details can make a difference. We spoke with nature illustrator Rosalie Haizlett about art, observation, and growing to appreciate familiar places.

Rosalie Haizlett is a nature illustrator (Photo courtesy Rosalie Haizlett)

OUT THERE: What was your relationship with nature like, growing up in West Virginia?

ROSALIE HAIZLETT: Nature has always been an inspiration for me and a big part of my life growing up on a farm in rural West Virginia. I spent lots of time playing outside and had lots of freedom to explore, which was amazing because it helped me to feel safe outside. It gave me a positive association with the woods from an early age. I think for a lot of people that don’t grow up with that access, there’s a little bit more fear of the unknown.

When I got to middle school I, like most other kids that age, wanted to play on the computer and not go outside as much. My interest in nature was reignited as a high-school student when I started enjoying backpacking and exploring on my own. It became something that I wanted for myself, instead of just something that I did with my family.

OT: How did you come to see what you call “the amazing intricacy of our planet”?

RH: I am a migraine sufferer, and one of the main things that is healing for me when I have a migraine is spending time outside. It doesn’t cure it every single time, but it gives me a lot of relief. When I realized that nature had a healing effect on me, I started spending more time walking and going outside every day. You don’t always have access to epic hikes, so you’re often walking the same places over and over again. Maybe it’s just around your block or a path through a park.

I started noticing more and more as I was taking these walks, and I was like, “Oh wow! I could walk the same path, and every single time I’m going to see something new.” It made me want to pay attention to those things.

Then, when I started painting more from nature, I started noticing more on these hikes. The two keep feeding into each other. The more I hike, the more I want to paint nature. The more I paint nature, the more I want to go outside and explore.

(Photo courtesy Rosalie Haizlett)

OT: Can you describe a project that changed the way you approach your art or the natural world?

RH: This past winter, I spent four months preparing for a solo exhibition at a gallery. I had been enjoying taking pictures of textures and patterns that I see in nature and then zooming in on them really far so I could see all of these crazy details. I really liked how, when you look at something really closely, it abstracts it and causes you to interpret something that you might be familiar with in a new way, like tree bark.

So for this project, I decided to focus on the bogs of the region in West Virginia where I was living at the time. It was in the West Virginia Highlands, and there are a lot of really beautiful cranberry bogs around that have pitcher plants and sphagnum moss and carnivorous sundew and all of these beautiful plants that are really small. You have to get down on your hands and knees to find them. I decided for this show I was going to take photos of interesting botanicals that I found there and then paint them on a huge scale. I wanted to show a close-up of these different plants and remind people what’s out there. I think we’re just so used to seeing things from afar. It was fun to bring people into my world of stooping down in the bogs and seeing all these fun things.

OT: How do you find a balance between personal projects, interests, and work?

RH: When I started out in illustration, I couldn’t be very picky about the projects that I did. Sometimes I did things that felt more like client work. I was like, “You got to make money somehow. I’ll do fun projects on the side.” I feel really lucky that my work has been well received in the past couple years, and now I don’t have to accept any projects that I wouldn’t be passionate about.

OT: If you painted one thing over and over again, what would it be?

RH: I paint a lot of mushrooms, because I think they’re so weird looking and awesome, and they’re also everywhere. I love that you can find them year-round. Mosses also really captivate me. They’re all pretty much green, but they just have such cool individual shapes. The structure of each kind of moss is really different.

Rosalie Haizlett (Photo courtesy Rosalie Haizlett)

OT: What advice would you give to someone who wants to become more observant in nature?

RH: I would suggest finding a place that you enjoy, even if it’s just a park in your neighborhood, and try going back to that place regularly. Maybe once a week, or maybe you go every day for a week. Try to find one new thing each time you go. Spend some time looking at that thing or maybe sketch it, if you like art, or take a picture and use the iNaturalist app to try to identify it. Just try to engage with one new thing every time.

That sets the tone for understanding that, no matter how many times you go back, you’re always going to find something new. I think that’s so exciting, because it gives us a new sense of gratitude for the natural spaces that we have right around us. You don’t have to always be seeking out new places to entertain or inspire you. You can go back to the same place if you just change the way that you look at the place.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find Rosalie online at her website, on Skillshare, or on Instagram @rosaliehaizlett.

Spotlight on Ivan McClellan

BY CARA SCHAEFER

Photo from the Eight Seconds Project by Ivan McClellan

Cowboys are a staple of American history, but who might you find at a rodeo today?

We spoke with photographer Ivan McClellan about all things cowboy culture and his photography project Eight Seconds, which aims to capture the essence of the modern cowboy. 

OUT THERE: What inspired you to start the Eight Seconds Project?

IVAN MCCLELLAN: I was at a party and the only other Black guy that was there said, “Hey I’m doing a documentary about Black rodeos. Do you want to tag along and take some photos?” There were these Black cowboys everywhere. They were cowboys, but presenting an image of a cowboy like I’d never seen. There were guys in basketball shorts and Jordans. Everything was bedazzled and fancy. There were pinky rings, braids, and long acrylic nails. There was hip hop and soul music. And it stunned me.

I’d always been into Westerns and cowboy culture, but seeing Black applied to it in such a  creative and rich way really inspired me. I’m from Kansas City, so there were tons of folks from my hometown. It made me recontextualize my hometown and my upbringing to be not one of poverty or of urbanity. It changed it to be about this pride and ownership, this dignity and this robust culture. I got obsessed with it. I went to ten rodeos that year and continued to go for subsequent years. I eventually needed something to do with the photos. And so I came up with Eight Seconds, which is how long you have to ride a bull to get a qualified score in a rodeo. 

OT: From these experiences, who is the modern cowboy to you? 

IM: I’ve run into Western brands and they’re like, “Nobody gets to wear a cowboy hat unless they’re a real cowboy.” Like it’s an image that’s exclusive to somebody that ranches and farms and lives that lifestyle. And I don’t agree with that at all. I feel like it’s a culture, like punk or hip hop is a culture. It’s an invitation, and it’s open to anybody that feels that way. A lot of cowboys today don’t wear Western wear. I see a lot of Black folks that are fully in the culture, and they wear street wear while they ride their horses. They wear ball caps and jeans and t-shirts. I think the thing that’s really transformed for me is that it’s current. It’s about what’s going on right now.

Photo from the Eight Seconds Project by Ivan McClellan

OT: How do you think a connection to the land plays into the cowboy narrative? 

IM: For Black cowboys, I think it’s critically important, and it’s something that has been really inspiring for me. The first Black cowboys came straight off of plantations, and they either got jobs on ranches or they came out of slavery and claimed their own plots of land for the first time in their family’s lineage. They formed all-Black towns like Boley, Oklahoma that were rich and thriving. And it was all centered around land ownership.

Fast forward to today, and there are fewer Black folks that own land and that farm or work with animals, so the ones that still do are important. It’s a legacy that everybody should know about and be proud of, because it not only harkens back to the past and tells us where we came from, but I think it gives us a road map to the future. Land ownership is critically important for people to come out of poverty, and I think the ability to grow your own food and work with animals is becoming more relevant as we see resource scarcity.

OT: Why did you use photography specifically as a medium to explore this subject?

IM: I enjoy photography because it’s not explicit. I find that when I put a photo out in the world, people gravitate to wholly different things in the photo. It’s like a song. Somebody can listen to a song and get something completely different than the person that sits next to them. I let the photo represent what it is. How you feel about it and what you do next, that’s all up to you.

OT: Is there any one image you took that best informs your own understanding of the modern cowboy?

IM: One of my absolute favorite photos is of an event called Pony Express. It’s a relay race. A bunch of riders ride around the arena, and they pass a baton as they go forty miles an hour on a quarter horse around a tiny arena. They wear hats as a formality, because when you’re going that fast it just pops right off your head. It’s right before the race starts, and there are these three young men right in a row, and they’re on their horses, and they just look so cool. They look so comfortable. One of them has a towel around his neck because it’s 105 degrees and he doesn’t want to get too sweaty. One of them is looking away from the camera, very intentionally, kind of chin up and posing. And the other guy is looking right at me with the coolest smile, like he’s one with this horse. They’re truly connected to their animal, and they’re confident that they’re going to perform well. And it feels like the kind of comfort and confidence that I want to have about what I’m doing.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find more of Ivan’s work online at eightsecs.com or on instagram @eightsecs.

Spotlight on Francis Mendoza

BY CARA SCHAEFER

Perhaps now more than ever, local parks serve as a source of connection and community health.

We spoke with Francis Mendoza, a naturalist at East Bay Regional Parks, about outdoor interpretation, breaking down barriers to parks, and spending time outside with his daughters.

Francis Mendoza (photo courtesy Francis Mendoza)

Out There: What does an interpreter or naturalist do?

Francis Mendoza: We interpret the cultural and natural history of historic sites and parks to the public. Oftentimes that involves doing activities such as nature study, hikes, and climbing. Interpretation is sort of like teaching environmental education, yet it has a deeply rooted history in provocation, and conservation as well. It’s a way of getting people to care about the environment and nature in a very loving way.

OT: Is there a memory that comes to mind where you helped someone experience a greater connection with nature?

FM: Absolutely. One I often talk about came early in my career when I was an environmental educator with an organization called Kids for the Bay. We would bring animals from the bay into the classroom, fish they could touch and feel, but the last class was taking them out into the watershed. These are a group of rambunctious, eager, enthusiastic youth that, you know, it’s pretty tough to get them to quiet down when they are having a good time and learning. We went up to the Oakland Hills, and they did a restoration project, reinstalling willows into the watershed. Then we did an art project where we got oil pastels, and all thirty of them sat on the branches of this big oak tree, and they were quiet for twenty minutes, just drawing what they saw in nature. That was a powerful experience for me and showed how affecting nature can be to people’s mindsets but also their love of nature, reconnecting them with something that might be lost when we are living in an urban environment.

OT: What are some of the barriers to accessing parks and other green spaces, and how do you think these barriers could be broken down, so that we have more people and children outside?

FM: Oftentimes when we are doing projects and collaborations with different groups, or when we’re looking for grant money, the sort of pigeon-holed responses will be transportation or cultural barriers or money. I don’t think those are barriers. Those are easy things to overcome through diligent work and research and community engagement.

The barriers that I often point out are the cultural stigmas that people put on a group of folks. Stereotypes like that Black or Latinx folks don’t go to the outdoors. Well, we both know that they do. They might do so in a different way, where they’re having large family gatherings, where they are interacting with nature using social media, but these are valid and important ways of interacting with nature that a lot of dominant paradigms look to as, “Oh it’s not valid”. It’s completely valid. Those stigmas and mindsets that look at interacting with the environment only in a few ways are a big barrier that we all have to overcome.

Francis Mendoza poses with a shark Rostrum (PHOTO courtesy Francis Mendoza)

OT: As a ranger you probably get asked a lot of questions. Have any stood out to you as especially challenging to answer?

FM: One thing about being a ranger is that we have a really multifaceted set of responsibilities when it comes to protecting, conserving, allowing access (but not too much access) to places that are especially sacred to native folks.

So one of the things that I like to ensure is that when you talk about native people it’s not just in the past. And when people ask questions like, “How many native people lived here?” I like to go, “Well, I’ll talk to my friend who’s native and ask what their ancestors have done and how that knowledge has been passed down from elders to youth.” So in answering that question, I like to destigmatize the whole romanticization of native cultures as being in the past. And instead look at them in the context of the modern world, how they live in a modern way along with honoring their ancestors in the way that they do ceremony.

OT: Outside of work, what is your personal relationship with nature like? It can be hard to separate the two when you work in the outdoors.

FM: There’s really not an outside of work for me. And that can be problematic at times, because when you are knee-deep in your work, you also want to be able to take a step back from it and delineate what you can do outside of work hours. What I do is I try to focus on my self-care. And read books — oftentimes books that are aligned with my work, but also books that speak to other passions in my life, like activism and racial equality. Which also delves into my work, essentially, of trying to get more folks of color out into the outdoors and show representation. So outside of work I’m reading, and I’m spending time with my daughters and my relatives, enjoying their company.

OT: With your daughters, are you working to foster a connection with nature for them, and what has it been like sharing outdoor experiences with them?

FM: Ever since they were young (they’re both fifteen now) I’ve been exposing them to the outdoors, but not in excess. The reason why is because oftentimes when parents try to impose a certain kind of mindset on their kids, they’ll rebel. And that kind of thing is something that I just wanted to expose them to nice and gently as they grew up. And I think they’ve gotten it. Because with this pandemic, the first thing that they wanted to do was go camping.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Photo courtesy Francis Mendoza

You can find Francis Mendoza on Instagram @roving_ranger or read their Op-Ed on being an Asian Outsider here.

Spotlight on Britany Greenwalt

BY CARA SCHAEFER

Walking along a trail, you spot a flash of color, perhaps an early spring wildflower. You bend down for a closer look and find a plastic wrapper instead.

That’s why Midwestern outdoorswoman and environmentalist Britany Greenwalt started the 11th Essential: to clean up our public lands. Her goal is to convince you to add the “11th essential,” a trash bag, to your pack when getting ready for your next outdoor adventure.

Please note: This interview includes a reference to adult material.

BRITANY GREENWALT IS THE FOUNDER OF THE 11TH ESSENTIAL (PHOTO COURTESY BRITANY GREENWALT)

OUT THERE: Why is environmental stewardship important to you?

BRITANY GREENWALT: As someone who enjoys outdoor recreation, I want others to be able to enjoy it in its natural state. I want generations to enjoy it. I want my nieces and nephews to enjoy it how it was meant to be: natural, not with trash or messed up by people.

OT: What is the mission of the 11th Essential, and what does that look like in practice?

BG: The main mission of the 11th Essential is to encourage everyone to add that extra bag to their essential items, no matter what type of recreation they’re going out to do. We want everyone to be prepared to leave it better and to do their part in lessening the impact that they have on the environment. Our mission is to encourage people to see stewardship as a day-to-day practice, not an overwhelming burden. Not something where, “Oh I have to schedule this huge clean up.” No, instead, “I’m going on a hike.” Every hike can be an opportunity to practice stewardship!

OT: Is there any outdoor place you have a special connection to, and if so, why?

BG: The Hocking Hills in Ohio is the biggest one, because that is truly where the 11th Essential was born. I grew up in the Hocking Hills, in the surrounding state parks. Not only is it beautiful and geologically and historically diverse, it really is just a magical place. So teaching my nieces all about outdoor stewardship and the Ten Essentials, and cleaning up down there, is really what made me see the need for messaging around outdoor stewardship.

OT: What’s the most surprising piece of trash you’ve found out in nature?

BG: I’ve found a pocket pussy, which makes for a rather funny story, but it is also really disgusting. I found the top of a laminator in the same state forest, which is even funnier. Those two items are definitely the top of the “How in the heck? Or why in the heck?”

OT: How can we as individuals better care for our environment?

BG: Being aware of our impact is the best way that we can care. Even the most well-educated outdoors person can still find ways to improve their impact, whether it be how they recreate or just little things. They’re part of a bigger world that we really need to be very conscious of when it comes to every decision we make in regards to the outdoors.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You learn more about the 11th Essential at 11thessential.org, and on Instagram @11thessential.

You can follow Britany on Instagram @britanyinwanderland.

Spotlight on Mikaela Osler

BY CARA SCHAEFER

Would you push yourself to the limits? This summer, writer Mikaela Osler set a new record on the Colorado Trail: she hiked the whole 486 miles in 10 days and 12.5 hours.

That’s the fastest known time (FKT) for a woman to complete the trail self supported. We spoke with Mikaela about the “why” of this trip and how she connects with nature off the trail.

Mikaela Osler holds the women’s record for the fastest known self-supported thru-hike of the colorado trail (Photo courtesy Mikaela Osler)

OUT THERE: Why did you decide to pursue a fastest known time record on the Colorado Trail?

MIKAELA OSLER: I already finished the Triple Crown in 2019, and when I was on the Appalachian Trail I listened to Heather Anderson’s memoir Thirst, which is about her fastest known time attempt on the Pacific Crest Trail. And that’s when I started thinking, “Maybe this is a thing I could try to do,” because what I loved about thru-hiking was challenging myself to go fast and to learn the limits of my body. I’m in grad school, so I had the summer off, and I decided it was good timing to try to do it.

OT: How did you prepare for the FKT attempt?

MO: Not as much as what you’re supposed to! I was coming off of an injury. I have ongoing IT band issues that I really started dealing with around January of this year, and it took me until late May, early June until I was running again consistently. Then I just ran like I would normally run if I were training for an Ultra. So I did one 55-mile week and then tapered for a couple weeks and got on the trail.

OT: Is there any specific moment on the trail that stands out when you think about it now?

MO: Olga King had the record before me, and the etiquette is to reach out to the person who has the record and ask for guidance. And so we talked a bit on Facebook, and I also looked at her blog and her photos. One morning I was lying in the trail. I had hiked until 3 a.m. and slept until 5:30 a.m., and I woke up and there’s this woman barreling down the trail, at barely sunrise. I apologized for being in the middle of the trail, and she said, “Oh it’s fine. I’ve done it plenty of times myself.” She had this Russian accent, and I was like, ‘Wouldn’t that be crazy if that was Olga King? But then what are the chances of that?’ So I went along with my day. I got up on a ridge and I had service, so I checked my phone, and I had this Facebook message from Olga King being like, “Did I just step over you?” And so it was her!

OT: How did you motivate yourself when things got especially tough on the trail?

MO: What was really interesting to me about this experience was how much negative self-talk I had going in a circle in my head. Like, “You should be faster than this, you are stronger than this.” Not in an uplifting, pep-talk kind of way, but in just pure rage at myself. And I guess that was in some senses motivating, because I was so mad that I wanted to keep going! That’s not really the healthiest way, and it was extremely emotionally difficult for me, especially towards the end. I was crying all the time, because I was mad at myself and wanted to go faster. Also, I needed a ride home. My partner could come on Sunday evening and get me, but we had to drive back to Albuquerque so he could go to work on Monday. And so part of what was motivating for me for the last couple days was I had a deadline.

OT: Do you think you ever came to a point of peace with the self-talk in your head, or do you think that’s something you’re still working through?

MO: I definitely did not come to a point of peace. I had moments of joy and bliss, but I think in my head I was like, ‘Well anyone could do this; you’re not really doing anything special.’ When I got to the end, I was sitting in this chair eating cold pizza and realized that what I had done was really was impressive and super hard. So afterwards I started to feel better about it. It’s definitely a thing I’m still thinking about moving forward: if I do hard things like this again, how to be nice to myself as I do it.

OT: When you aren’t thru-hiking hundreds of miles or setting speed records, what is your everyday relationship with nature like?

MO: I’m a runner. I’m outside pretty much everyday. I try to go to the mountains a lot. Albuquerque is a great place for that. I’m doing an MFA in creative writing right now, and I’m often thinking about the way nature is framed and how our ideas about nature are somewhat made up. I’m always exploring this paradox between feeling like my experiences in nature, or my experiences of long distance hiking, have been really transformational for me. At the same time I feel like so many of our narratives around nature and wilderness historically have been associated with colonialism and masculinity. I would say my relationship with nature is fraught.

OT: In a few sentences, what do you want your story to be?

MO: I think a lot about living with intention and living an examined life. When I write about myself, what I want those essays to do is ask questions I’m struggling to ask or not feeling brave enough to ask, and to have the courage to ask them.

OT: I would say that reflects your life choices to take on some of these longer thru-hikes and FKT attempt.

MO: Yeah, I do think that they’re related. I mean it’s difficult, right? The FKT is a special thing, and I’m happy I did it, and I think I would be sad if I had not tried to do that. I also think it’s a thing that is very focused on the self, and what I want my life story to be is deeply engaged with the world outside myself as well.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Mikaela Osler, upon finishing the Colorado Trail (Photo by Troy ALLEN)

The Colorado Trail is on Ute land.

You can find Mikaela on Instagram @mikaelaosler.

Spotlight on Minorities in Shark Science

BY CARA SCHAEFER

When you picture a marine scientist, what comes to mind? Minorities in Shark Science (MISS) is hoping to change that and also make some discoveries along the way.

We spoke with President and co-founder Jasmin Graham about building community, science, and fishing for sharks.

Photo courtesy Jasmin Graham

OUT THERE: What personally drew you to study sharks?

JASMIN GRAHAM: I kind of stumbled upon sharks. I was majoring in marine biology, and we had what’s called a “research matchmaking day” at my university, which is basically speed dating, except for research labs. I went to that event and was looking at all the stuff that everyone always is really excited about, like sea turtles and coral. As I was leaving, I literally ran into the person that would become my advisor and mentor in undergrad, because he was late, as he often is, because he’s always slightly disheveled.

So I ran into him, and I helped him get his table set up. He was really excited and showing me all the stuff that he works on with sharks and evolution, and I was like, “Huh, I’ve never thought about sharks like that. It seems a little random but I’m about it.”

And that made me excited, but he also didn’t have any funding to pay for an undergraduate student, so I was like, “Well that’s a bummer”. And he said, “But let me get your email and I’ll let you know if I come into some funding.”

He ended up being a research mentor at College of Charleston’s marine lab that next summer, so I worked with him and got super excited about sharks. I tried a bunch of other different things too, but I was like, “Well, I’m always comparing everything to sharks, so maybe I should just do that.”

OT: How was Minorities in Shark Science formed?

JG: We met each other on Twitter during Black Birders Week. They had a hashtag #blackinnature and people were tweeting pictures of them in nature, and I tweeted that with a picture of me doing shark science in the field. And came across Carlee, who had tweeted a picture of her doing shark science, and I was like, “Woah! Wait a minute!” Because up until this point I had only met one black shark scientist, and he was a man. And so to see another black woman shark scientist was like “Woah!”

So obviously I responded to her tweet, and she’s like, “Woah, who knew, there are two of us!” And then Amani popped in and was like, “Make that three,” and Jaida was like, “Me too!” And so we kind of jokingly were like, “We should form a club.” And then we got really excited by it and realized that we felt really isolated, and we didn’t realize how isolated we were until we found that community, and so we wanted to make sure we gave that community to other people.

That’s how this all started, and it really just grew and grew as we saw how excited people were about it and how much people needed it. We grew to meet the need and so now we’re over 160 members in 15 different countries.

In addition to workshops, we have internships, and we’ve built community. We have monthly Zoom calls where we bring in a guest speaker and they teach us about something, some important professional development, or we do networking or have a Halloween party or whatever. It’s gotten to be this close community that’s really exciting.

OT: Your website mentions the importance of hands-on research experiences. What is studying sharks in the field like?

JG: It’s kind of like any other fishing, until you catch something. So it’s a lot of baiting, waiting around, pulling in the line or the gill net and being like, “Huh, I wonder if we caught anything.”

Sometimes it’s like, “Aw man, we didn’t catch anything,” and then other times it’s like, “Woah there’s a shark!” And that gets the adrenaline pumping. Especially if it’s a big shark, you get really excited about it.

You go into this hyper focus mode where you’re like, “Okay, I need to make sure I get all the samples, I need to make sure everyone knows what they’re doing, and everyone’s where they’re supposed to be.”

And it’s high stakes because some sharks are really fragile, and keeping them out of water they get very stressed very quickly, so it’s trying to move fast, but you’re also trying to get all your samples and do it safely for you and the shark. I would say it’s like fishing with higher stakes.

PHoto courtesy Jasmin Graham

OT: Has starting MISS had an impact on your own experiences in marine science?

JG: Definitely. Starting MISS has been super impactful in my life.

Hearing people have similar stories to me makes me feel super valid in how I feel and my experiences. I also feel like we have a really strong collective voice now.

I go post on the Slack like, “Hey this happened to me,” and there’s a whole bunch of other people that are like, “Something similar happened to me too and that’s not okay.”

You feel more confident speaking out about it, because it is happening to so many other people, and you don’t feel so alone or like you’re overreacting, because other people are having the same reactions. That’s really nice to be in a situation where no one questions your reaction as an overreaction, which happens a lot when there aren’t people that have the same life experiences as you.

Having us all be together makes me feel more empowered to speak out against things, because I know that I’m not just speaking for me. I’m speaking for this whole community of people. It turns into, “I’m not going to let this person say this to me, because I wouldn’t want them to say this to another MISS member.” It gives you that drive to want to make the world better because you have all of these people that you want to create a better world for. It makes you want to fight.

OT: How would you like to see Minorities in Shark Science evolve over time?

JG: Ultimately, I’d love to create a scientific community where MISS is no longer needed. I want every place, every space to be like MISS. Where you can come and you can say, “I feel this way,” and not have anyone say, “You’re overreacting,” or, “That’s not true.” And then also be able to look around you and see people like you. What I really want is not necessarily for MISS to evolve but for the culture to, for MISS to change the culture. To make it so that every place in science feels like MISS does for women of color.

OT: How do you think the scientific community can be more inclusive of women of color?

JG: We need a more equitable way to access science, especially marine science, which is really inaccessible to a lot of people for a variety of reasons.

Even before you get into the intersection of being a woman and being a person of color, there’s other things like certain school systems don’t have access to strong STEM education. People don’t have opportunities to go out and experience the ocean or things like that, either because they live in a landlocked state or because they live really close to water; they just can’t get to it. A lot of people don’t realize that just because you live in a coastal city doesn’t mean you’ve ever been to the beach, especially if there’s not a bus route that goes to the beach.

Also we’ve got to stop with this nonsense of unpaid internships and demanding people work for free. I don’t know why people think it’s okay to have someone work for free, just because they’re a student. For some reason we decided people that are students that don’t have any money, obviously they should work for free. So that cuts out everyone who doesn’t have that financial cushion to be able to go galavanting around on the ocean for free.

And then even after you get past all of that and you manage to get into science, you’re still going to have people that act like you don’t belong there. And so we’ve got to change our attitudes. And when I say change our attitudes I mean not just what we say to people, because there’s not very many people that say bad things. It’s how you act, how you interact with people, like if you’re always talking over the woman in the room or you totally ignore the person of color whenever they share a really unique idea. There’s a lot of that. And also people making comments like, “We don’t have people of color in here because people of color don’t want to be here or they don’t meet our standards.”

I’ve had people say, “Black people don’t do water. That’s why they're not marine scientists,” or “All first-generation Americans aren’t really good writers so they don’t do well in school and so that’s why they’re not here.” All of these things that people attribute to someone’s racial identity that has nothing to do with their intelligence or their capability. But it’s super ingrained in us, because everyone wants to believe that we live in an equitable system, and everyone wants to believe that everyone has equal opportunities, and if there aren’t people at the table it’s because they didn’t earn it.

And so whenever you start bringing people to the table that haven’t been at the table, everyone assumes that it’s because they made the qualifications easier to let those people in. It doesn’t feel good to have someone treat you like you didn’t earn your place there and don’t belong. I think those are the big challenges that we’re facing right now.

OT: I know we are still learning so much about the ocean and marine life. Are there any questions you hope to answer about sharks, or maybe hope that another MISS member will eventually be able to answer, with the support that you’re providing?

JG: There are tons of things that I want to know about sharks! With a lot of species, we don’t know how long they live, we don’t know where they mate, we don’t know where they give birth or lay their eggs. Which is really important information to know, especially with so many species being endangered and vulnerable.

Even really big species like whale sharks — I mean they’re huge; how do we not know where they mate? How do we not know where their pups are born? They’re ginormous.

Stuff like that is really important, because if they’re going to pup or mate somewhere, and they’re all in this big aggregation, and that’s also where somebody’s fishing or there’s an oil leakage or a lot of boat traffic, then they’re getting slaughtered from all this stuff and we don’t know. That’s a problem. That’s my big mystery that I would like to solve.

Image courtesy Jasmin Graham

To learn more about Minorities in Shark Science, visit their website, and follow them on Instagram @miss_elasmo. You can also support them on Patreon.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Spotlight on Joseph and Nicole Shortsleeves

BY CARA SCHAEFER

Joseph Shortsleeves has a happy place: anywhere outside. It just takes some extra planning to get there.

Since Joseph is non-verbal and has differences in brain development that can make communication and mobility challenging, we spoke with his sister, Nicole, about exploring the outdoors with her brother and making the outdoors more accessible to those with disabilities.

Photo courtesy Nicole Shortsleeves

OUT THERE: Can you tell me a bit about your brother?

NICOLE SHORTSLEEVES: His name’s Joseph. He’s 20 years old, almost 21. He was born with multiple diagnoses, including microcephaly/lissencephaly, which means “small head, smooth brain” and is the cause of him being someone who uses a manual wheelchair. He also has epilepsy. Behind all that, he’s this lovable young man who’s just like us. He cares about others. He is just like any other 20 year old would be.

OT: How does nature play a role in you and Joseph’s life?

NS: Joe likes to go outside. It’s calming for him. Recently he rented a bike, well mom did, where he sits out in front, and he constantly wants to be on it. He went on one once, one or two years ago, and at that time he didn’t necessarily have a way of telling us because he didn’t have his communication iPad at the time, but when he finally got it and she asked him about it he just wanted to keep going. It allowed him to tell us that he wants to be outside. It didn’t matter what time of day, it didn’t matter if it was rain or shine, warm or cold, he wanted to be outside. It allows him to talk about something other than, “Oh hey, we are about to change your Depend,” or ”Hey, we are about to give you a bath.” It allows him to be more conversational. Personally, I love all of it. Hiking, biking, as long as I’m outside I’m good. And I think together it brings out more time to have memories.

OT: Do you have a favorite memory of being in nature, the two of you?

NS: Back when he was eight and I was ten, we went on a family camping trip. We took out the seat to the back of the van, and we set it outside so he could sit in it, but he just wanted to be on the ground. I remember us sitting there, and he was just picking up the rocks and playing with the leaves, and this bug came flying, and he wanted to catch it. He tried to get a mason jar that was nearby. We were able to communicate and be like, “Oh that’s what he wants”, to catch the bug. I think it’s called a jitterbug. We just looked and played with it for the longest time. We had it for the rest of the night, but I just remember feeling like nothing else was going on in the world. We were out in the middle of a state park and we were just being kids, having fun in the woods, playing with a jitterbug. That’s all he wanted, and that’s all I wanted, and so that’s all we did.

Photo courtesy Nicole Shortsleeves

OT: What do you have to keep in mind when going outside with Joseph?

NS: I have to bring everything medical that he needs. That is a big thing, because if something does happen, like if he has a seizure, if it is three minutes or more we have to give him his emergency meds. We always have to remember his water. You got to stay hydrated. And if I take a sip of water, I give him water. If I give him water, I drink water. And it helps both of us stay hydrated. It’s also thinking about his chair and where we’re going with the environment and trying to make it so that there’s less hassles, whether it’s rocks or bumps or if it’s a walk around the neighborhood sidewalks, because his chair isn’t made for the outdoors. It’s made to go from point A to point B on a sidewalk, but it’s not made for all the sticks and stones and trees and roots and all of that. It’s making sure he’s safe but also still able to have fun.

OT: How do you think we can make the outdoors more accessible for people with disabilities?

NS: Not every place has bathrooms, but if it’s a state park or a nature park area that does have bathrooms, that they have an adult changing table. It’s hard to change someone’s Depend while they’re in their chair. If you are out in a wooded area, you can’t necessarily change them on the ground if you can’t lift them or transfer them to the ground. Another thing: any area that has water, whether it’s the ocean or a lake, making it so that there’s a ramp, so that way chairs can go up or down, closer to the water or away from the water. Joseph loves to be along the water. And it’s hard to find beach wheelchairs that are suitable for him and ramps, because most wheelchairs cannot get to a beach because of the sand.

OT: There’s something you said the last time we talked about how we could personally be more welcoming. What was it?

NS: It starts with a smile. It makes anyone’s day, whether you use a chair or you use your own legs to move around. It can set that vibe or that mood of like, “Hey I’m welcoming! Hey how are you? I’m not going to necessarily treat you differently. I’m going to be respectful.” You can be respectful, but also if you don’t understand how to communicate with someone like Joseph, you may not realize that they’re just either trying to say hi or trying to say, “Hey, can you hand me this or that?” Or “Hey, can you help me with this?” And Joseph does have those questions; he just can’t say it like we can. But facial expression is one of the most commonly used forms of communication, and it’s very universal. Facial expression is 99%, I’d say almost 100%, of communication.

To hear more about Nicole and Joseph Shortsleeves, visit them on Youtube or Instagram. You can also support their efforts to get a wheelchair-accessible van for Joseph here.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Spotlight on Cindy Villaseñor

BY CARA SCHAEFER

If there’s one person who can make digging around in the dirt and low-waste living look fun, it’s garden educator Cindy Villaseñor.

We were lucky enough to speak with her about growing food and finding ways to reduce your environmental impact. 

PHOTO COURTESY Cindy Villaseñor

OUT THERE: How does gardening provide you with a connection to nature?

CINDY VILLASEÑOR: I think it’s as simple as touching the soil. You interact with the soil, and you see how plants grow. You get to see life basically happen in front of you through a plant. And you see how many insects interact with it, whether it’s a bee pollinating or a spider somewhere in the garden. Even though they’re very small little things, you realize that there’s a whole big world that is around you and alive, and that you are part of it.

OT: What started you on gardening?

CV: When I was in college I ended up volunteering at the campus garden and compost facility. Towards the end of the summer, the student manager who was in charge saw how interested I was in the compost, and he ended up passing his job to me. I honestly didn’t know much about gardening, even though I was going to be the student manager handling volunteers and things like that! I started learning on my own and from the professors that were in charge of the food garden. It all just started from there.

OT: What’s your favorite thing to grow in your personal garden right now?

CV: Hmm, I would say tomatoes. It’s very satisfying to see tomatoes come to fruit. And one other  that I was super excited about: we actually grew a butternut squash! I didn’t think it was going to happen because of not having enough sunlight for plants like that, but we ended up getting this one full-grown butternut squash, and I was really proud of that one.

OT: I know you do some really fun cooking stuff with some of the food you grow. How do you use tomatoes in the kitchen?

CV: I like to make a lot of salsas. One of the things I really started incorporating a couple summers ago was making our own pasta sauce from scratch. I love putting garlic with them and all these other herbs. 

PHOTO COURTESY Cindy Villaseñor

OT: You talk about being low-waste versus zero-waste. What does that mean to you?

CV: I tend to use those two terms kind of interchangeably, because “zero-waste” is more of a concept. And I say “concept” because in the world that we live in right now, true zero-waste doesn’t exist. I usually use “low-waste” a lot because that’s the reality that we live in. Low-waste is you will still make some trash, you won’t be perfect and that’s just how it is. At least right now in these times.

OT: What are some simple changes you’d recommend to someone trying to transition to a more low-waste lifestyle.

CV: One I love to recommend is trying reusable paper towels. And the other tip would be try to see what’s available to you in your local grocery store or market. To see what’s available package-free or in reusable containers, and seeing if you can get creative with what you have. I tend to do a lot of googling for recipes and seeing what I can create with package-free items that are available to me.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

PHOTO COURTESY Cindy Villaseñor

To read more about Cindy, follow her on Instagram @cerowastecindy or visit her website.

Spotlight on Nick Golebiewski

BY CARA SCHAEFER

It’s hard to keep a resolution for even a few months, but visual artist Nick Golbiewski has kept his for nearly seven years.

The resolution involves daily drawings, outdoors. We spoke with Nick about how this project came about and about connecting with nature in even the most urban of environments.

PHOTO COURTESY NICK GOLEBIEWSKI

OUT THERE: What made you start the Nick’s Lunchbox Service Art Project?

NICK GOLEBIEWSKI: It started on New Year’s Day as a sort of New Year’s resolution: “I’m going to make a drawing every day.” So that’s one aspect of it, this desire to make something every single day. And also at that time in my studio I was working on these large, intricate paintings of city scenes in New York City that would take me three or four months to finish. So there were these long-term projects and also I can finish something in one minute if I need to, and it’s done for the day. That was the genesis of the project.

OT: How has this project made you appreciate nature more, especially in urban settings?

NG: My rules for the project are it has to be made on site and then photographed that day and then posted, eventually, that day. Looking through New York City and going through the seasons, it’s a call to find the magnolia blossoms blooming in the spring and chasing those. Looking back over the years, I can see this magnolia bloomed two weeks earlier than last year; it’s like these sparks of beauty. And also a way of connecting to the outside even if you’re in New York City. I live in Greenwich Village, and there’s lots of buildings but also little gardens around all the trees and the little square of dirt that’s cut out of the sidewalk. And I’m right next to the Hudson River. It’s great being able to be out there and stare at the water in the Hudson River and make a drawing of it for ten minutes.There’s always finding something happening and appreciating what’s there.

OT: Is there any one drawing in particular that has a fun story behind it?

NG: There’s a fun one just a few days ago where we were walking along the creek in Highbanks Park and my kids started talking to some other kids, at distance, because we’ve been starved socially.When drawings bring up conversations with people, I think that’s when I feel the most successful or interesting. As an artist I’m always really psyched when one day I’ll make a drawing of the entrance of the Metropolitan Museum and they’ll retweet that drawing. It makes me feel like, “Wow people are listening”.

PHOTO COURTESY NICK GOLEBIEWSKI

OT: Have you ever had to do one in just absolutely terrible weather?

NG: Yes! I remember this crazy snowstorm, walking out to the Hudson River. You could hardly even see the horizon of New Jersey. I think my drawing was one line across a paper: okay here’s the separation between sky and earth. Even that line stopped working halfway through with the pen and all the snow falling on it. That’s one of the most weather adverse ones, but since then I’ve learned that pencil works a lot better in the rain or snow.

OT: What are some tips you have for people who want to draw and paint on the go?

NG: Just make it very portable and small scale. I always carry a small sketchbook with me and recently a couple of pencils and a small sharpener. That’s all you need. I’ve added in watercolor lately and so that means a small watercolor set and an old, single-serving yogurt cup I’ve been reusing for a year now that I just fill up with a little water from a water bottle. And for me, the other thing is a phone to take a picture of it on site afterwards. For example, I would draw and paint the left half of the bridge at Highbanks Park in Columbus and then let the photograph show the right half so that the different sides could talk to each other.

OT: I really like those tips. You can start with the basics.

NG: Yeah I’ve been leading a couple Zoom drawing workshops this pandemic, and usually I start with doing a blind contour drawing in these workshops. It’s a sketch where you’re just looking at an object, and you put your mark making tool down to the paper, and you’re not allowed to look down at your paper nor pick up the pencil. It’s one continuous line, so if you’re drawing somebody’s face it will end up having this beautiful line quality where you are really looking at someone’s glasses and their nose but when you look down at the paper afterwards it’s like this face slanting across the page. Usually you get somebody to laugh once they look at that, but it also loosens up the drawing technique. Draw every day. It kind of works, you get better.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

PHOTO COURTESY NICK GOLEBIEWSKI

To see more of Nick’s work, visit his website, follow him on Instagram, or support him on Patreon.

Tuesday Spotlight: Jawnie Payne

BY CARA SCHAEFER

With caracal kittens and porcupines for coworkers, work for Jawnie Payne is a bit...wild.

Jawnie is a zookeeper in Nashville, and her job involves everything from handling grumpy parrots, to demonstrating the benefits of “pests.” We spoke with Jawnie about the surprises — and pleasures — of her job.

Zookeeper Jawnie Payne with a Caracal kitten (photo courtesy Jawnie Payne)

OUT THERE: How did you become a zookeeper?

JAWNIE PAYNE: I never knew it was really a career choice until I was already in college. I started working seasonally at the Columbus Zoo, just working my way up to finally working with animals. I had to move halfway across the country to Texas to get my first full time zoo keeping job, which is normal for zookeepers to have to do.

OT: What’s one of the coolest animals you’ve ever worked with and why?

JP: A binturong or bearcat because it’s an animal that not many people know about. Yesterday we met a librarian, she said that her school mascot was a bearcat and she had no idea that it was a real thing! They’re just these weird old-world mammals that smell like popcorn when they scent mark and look like a bear and a cat but they’re not related to either of them. They’re arboreal and have really long tails that they can support their body weight with to hang. One of ours looks like a werewolf sometimes.

OT: What would surprise people the most about your job?

JP: Probably that you have to go to school for it. People will always ask all of us if we are volunteers at the zoo. And they’re usually shocked that we have to have, for the most part, a four-year degree. And the fact that we don’t just scoop poop, we do training and educate the public.

Jawnie Payne with a baby flamingo (photo courtesy Jawnie Payne)

OT: Have you ever had an animal’s behavior completely surprise you?

JP: We have a small parrot. He’s a Yellow-headed Amazon, so he’s bigger than a lot of other Amazon parrots, but they’re still like a small-ish bird. He probably weighs like a pound, or a little less. But he can be very grumpy. He’s an older bird. Usually he’s totally fine and he’ll take seeds from you nicely and he does his behaviors and he shows off his wings and he’ll talk for you. But the other day I got him out, he’s also not a fan of being on people’s hands, he’s very specific. I stepped him up on a stick that he steps up on and I went to hand him a seed. He leans past the seed, bit my finger, and then leaned up and laughed at me.

OT: What essential lesson do you hope each visitor takes away from interacting with you and the zoo’s education animals?

JP: We all hope that they learn about that animal. In a lot of cases just being exposed to animals they’ve never seen before or heard of. When they get that tangible experience a lot of times, it kind of sparks peoples’ passion a little bit more, which is why zoos are so important. Sometimes we make a big difference, especially with opossums. People hate them. They think they are going to make them sick. We’re able to say, “No, they are going to eat all your snakes and all your ticks and all your mice, and they’re not going to give you diseases, and it’s amazing to have them around.” Sometimes we’ll have people come back and say they have an opossum living under their porch and they’re so happy.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Jawnie Payne with a bearcat (photo courtesy Jawnie Payne)

You can follow Jawnie on Instagram @zookeeperjawnie and on Youtube here.

This interview is part of our Tuesday Spotlight series. The series explores what "outdoorsy" means, through conversations with individuals and organizations that are engaging with the natural world in thought-provoking ways.

Be our spring intern!

Out There seeks (remote) production intern for spring 2021

Photo by Torsten Dettlaff

This internship is an excellent opportunity to work one-on-one with an award-winning podcast team, and develop your audio production and editorial skills.

About Out There

Hosted by former Wyoming Public Radio reporter Willow Belden, Out There is an award-winning show that explores big questions through intimate stories in the outdoors.

What do we mean by “outdoors”? Anything outside your door! We believe the outdoors is for all, regardless of where you were raised or the color of your skin, because if you've stepped outside your house for any reason, you have a connection to nature. We seek to celebrate those connections and amplify stories that are often sidelined in mainstream media.

What are our stories like? Here are a few examples:

• “A Series of Unlikely Events” is a love story between a Black kayaker and a white rock climber, which explores whether you should take a chance on someone, even if things seem too good to be true.

• In “Out of the Shadows,” a trans woman sets out to climb the highest mountain on every continent, in order to shift the narrative about trans people.

• In “Before It’s Too Late,” a woman with African American and Cherokee roots travels to Mongolia, in hopes of regaining the eco-literacy that her own family has lost over the past few generations.

Most Out There episodes take the form of narratives, with highly edited scripts and detailed sound design. Occasionally, we also run interviews when the subject matter is spot on.

About the Internship

“As a recent graduate, I was looking for an opportunity to collaborate with an experienced podcast producer. The experience is truly all-encompassing: I learned some basics of the business side of an independent podcast, I was tasked with providing insight and critiques on scripts and pitches all while brainstorming and creating on my own Out There episode. Willow is extremely talented and organized; her experience in audio is something I feel lucky to learn from! I definitely recommend this opportunity if you are looking to sharpen your knowledge in audio storytelling!”

— Stephanie Maltarich, fall production intern

We want you to be doing work you’re excited about, so we’ll tailor the internship to you, based on your goals, interests and skills.

Here are some things your internship could focus on (please indicate in your cover letter which of these interest you most):

• Audio production — cutting tape, editing interviews, doing sound design/mixing for stories (this would require basic knowledge of audio editing software, such as Adobe Audition, though we will work with you to hone your skills)

• Editorial — evaluating story pitches, pre-interviewing guests, booking interviews, editing scripts

• Suggest your own focus — if there’s something you could bring to the table that’s not listed above, we’re all ears.

Audio mix of an Out There episode

What You’ll Get

“Working with Willow and the team at Out There has been such a bright spot for me this fall. The internship has given me the opportunity to continue to build my audio reporting and production skills in a constructive and collaborative environment. And Willow guides you through it all, from evaluating incoming pitches and editing narrative scripts to mixing episodes in Audition. … If you're an early-career audio maker looking for a supportive mentor with loads of experience in audio journalism, I definitely recommend this internship.”

— Anmargaret Warner, fall production intern

This internship is a chance to work one-on-one with an award-winning podcast team.

It’s unpaid, but you’ll have weekly meetings with Out There Host Willow Belden via phone or video chat, and you’ll get to put your mark on the show’s content.

Think of it as a mentorship, where you’ll learn what’s entailed in running a professional media operation, and gain fluency in skills you want to develop.

You’re also welcome to pitch us a story of your own; if it’s a good fit, we’ll work with you to develop it, and we’ll compensate you financially for it.

Script editing for Out There (Photo by Willow Belden)

Time Commitment

The internship runs from mid-January through mid-May 2021 (exact dates are flexible). We ask that you be ready to devote an average of 8 hours per week to it.

To Apply

Send a resume and cover letter to willow@outtherepodcast.com by Dec. 10, 2020 with “Internship Application” in the subject line.

Please make sure to highlight relevant experience/skills, as well as the areas you’d most like to focus on (eg. audio production, editorial, etc.). If you’ve done previous audio work, please provide a link to a story that showcases your skills.

One final note: We strive to be a welcoming place for people and stories of all stripes. We want diverse voices on the show and behind the scenes, telling stories that encompass a wide array of experiences. If you feel you would bring an underrepresented perspective to Out There, please let us know!

Pitch us your story!

Are you an audio storyteller?

Out There is seeking stories that showcase outdoor experiences you don’t often hear about in mainstream media, and we’d love to hear your pitches!

With this call for pitches, we are prioritizing stories that reflect outdoor experiences of BIPOC, LGBTQIA+ and/or people with disabilities. We are particularly interested in “happens to be” stories: stories that feature people who happen to belong to one of these communities, but where the story is not explicitly or solely about their identity, marginalization, or victimization. 

For example...

• Were you a refugee who developed a connection with nature, as your family migrated to safety? 

• Are you a native of Indonesia who experienced the 2004 or 2010 tsunami? What was your experience with the water and ocean before the floods hit? How did living through the tsunami change your relationship with nature? How did it affect your viewpoint of life? (These questions could apply to any natural disaster)

• Do you have a disability that makes it more challenging to explore the wilderness than people with able-bodied privilege? Tell us about an outdoor experience that changed you in a meaningful way.

• Are you a first- or second-generation African/Latinx/Asian immigrant who loves outdoor adventure? How have your experiences offered you a different viewpoint of nature than what your family raised you to have? 

• Are you a native Quechua or descendant of the Incas who has a family story or tradition that's connected to Machu Picchu? 

• Are you the first person in your community or family who has turned to nature to cope with an emotion, or a life decision?

These are just a few ideas to get the creative juices flowing; we’re eager to hear about your own personal journeys, emotions and experiences.

About us:

Out There is an award-winning show that explores big questions through intimate stories in the outdoors. 

What do we mean by “outdoors”? Anything outside your door! We believe the outdoors is for all, regardless of where you were raised or the color of your skin, because if you've stepped outside your house for any reason, you technically have a connection to nature. We seek to celebrate those connections and amplify your stories, so that everyone will see themselves reflected in the narratives we tell.

What we're looking for:

We want narratives that are deeply personal, and that also explore a broader question. Your story should have a compelling, thought-provoking plot, vivid scenes, and surprising moments of introspection. First-person narratives are especially appealing.

The piece needs to have a connection to the outdoors, but it doesn’t have to be about wilderness adventures or feats of strength; some of our best stories involve the urban outdoors.

Length: 10 - 15 minutes.

How to pitch:

If you’re interested in doing a piece, please email Willow at willow@outtherepodcast.com, with "Out There Pitch" in the subject line.

Please make sure your pitch includes:

1. what your story is about — i.e. the basic storyline, character(s), outcome;

2. the big idea/question the piece will explore;

3. the overall takeaway;

4. what makes the story surprising/interesting; and

5. how your story amplifies voices/perspectives that are often sidelined.

In addition, please include some info about yourself, and point us to an example or two of your work.

Pay: $500 - $1500, depending on your experience and the complexity of the story.

Be our fall intern!

Out There seeks (remote) production intern for fall 2020

Photo by Torsten Dettlaff

This internship is an excellent opportunity to work one-on-one with an award-winning podcast team, and develop your audio production and editorial skills.

About Out There

Nature has a remarkable capacity for helping us make sense out of our lives and the world around us. Out There is a testament to that power. Hosted by former Wyoming Public Radio reporter Willow Belden, the award-winning show explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors. 

For example, a ski instructor asks whether it’s cruel to teach children to fall in love with something they’re about to lose. A young man on his first hunting trip explores whether we’re all capable of pulling the trigger. And a Black adventurer explains why it’s so hard to get students of color outside.

Our stories all touch on the outdoors, but they are not always about extreme adventures. We believe the outdoors is for all, regardless of where you were raised, the color of your skin, or the manner in which you get outside — because if you've stepped outside your house for any reason, you have a connection to nature. And your story deserves to be told.

Most Out There episodes take the form of first-person narratives, with highly edited scripts and detailed sound design. Occasionally, we also run interviews when the subject matter is spot on.

About the Internship

"Working with Willow and the rest of the Out There team was a really effective way to learn more about podcasting. Not only did I get in more audio production and story-telling practice, but I was also able to talk through all of the little details with professionals, which is super helpful when you've hit a wall in your process. Plus everyone was so fun to work with! I couldn’t recommend this experience enough."

— Aja Simpson, summer production intern

We want you to be doing work you’re excited about, so we’ll tailor the internship to you, based on your goals, interests and skills.

Here are some things your internship could focus on (please indicate in your cover letter which of these interest you most):

• Audio production — cutting tape, editing interviews, doing sound design/mixing for stories (this would require basic knowledge of audio editing software, such as Adobe Audition, though we will work with you to hone your skills)

• Editorial — evaluating story pitches, pre-interviewing guests, booking interviews, editing scripts

• Social media — help us grow our social media following and improve our social media content (we’re very open to new ideas!)

• Suggest your own focus — if there’s something you could bring to the table that’s not listed above, we’re all ears.

Audio mix of an Out There episode

What You’ll Get

This internship is a chance to work one-on-one with an award-winning podcast team.

It’s unpaid, but you’ll have weekly meetings with Out There Host Willow Belden via phone or video chat, and you’ll get to put your mark on the show’s content. 

Think of it as a mentorship, where you’ll learn what’s entailed in running a professional media operation, and gain fluency in skills you want to develop.

You’re also welcome to pitch us a story of your own; if it’s a good fit, we’ll work with you to develop it.

Script editing for Out There (Photo by Willow Belden)

Time Commitment

The internship runs from mid-September through mid-December 2020 (exact dates are flexible). We ask that you be ready to devote an average of 8 hours per week to it.

To Apply

Send a resume and cover letter to willow@outtherepodcast.com by Aug. 30, 2020 with “Internship Application” in the subject line.

Please make sure to highlight relevant experience/skills, as well as the areas you’d most like to focus on (eg. audio production, editorial, etc.). If you’ve done previous audio work, please provide a link to a story that showcases your skills.

One final note: We strive to be a welcoming place for people and stories of all stripes. We want diverse voices on the show and behind the scenes, telling stories that encompass a wide array of experiences. If you feel you would bring an underrepresented perspective to Out There, please let us know!

Happy Juneteenth!

Juneteenth may not be recognized as a federal holiday, but it deserves to be celebrated.

It marks the day in 1865 when news arrived in Galveston, Texas that the enslaved were now free.

This was more than two years after the Emancipation Proclamation, and explanations for the delay vary (Messenger murdered? Lack of sufficient Union forces to enforce executive order? News deliberately withheld?). In any case, on June 19, 1865, Major General Gordon Granger arrived in Galveston with the following message:

"The people of Texas are informed that in accordance with a Proclamation from the Executive of the United States, all slaves are free. This involves an absolute equality of rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves, and the connection heretofore existing between them becomes that between employer and hired laborer."

Juneteenth traditions vary by place, but regardless of specifics, the holiday is a time for celebrating African American freedom and achievement, and for reflection, education, and self improvement.

Speaking of education, reflection and self improvement…

You can read more about the history of Juneteenth here and here.

Here are additional articles to check out:

• “Meaningful Ways to Celebrate Juneteenth This Year,” from Travel & Leisure

• National Museum of African American History and Culture Releases “Talking About Race” Web Portal

• “Socially Distant, Nature Based Ways to Mark Juneteenth” (for those in Washington DC)

And here are some of the items on our listening list for today:

• “Juneteenth,” from Pod Save America

• “153 Years of Juneteenth,” from The Takeaway

• “Celebrating Juneteenth Because George Floyd Changed the World,” from UCI Podcast

In Solidarity

Out There Podcast stands with the Black community and with all those who are confronting systemic racism.

Change starts with every single one of us.

We have plenty to learn and much work to do, and we are taking on that task of learning and doing.

We are committed to doing the work and showing up for racial justice and diversity — both indoors and out — now and in the long term.

As a podcast committed to making the concept of ‘the outdoors’ accessible to all, we will be better advocates for BIPOC to be able to access the outdoors without fear of violence, harassment and discrimination.

We commit to:

• Listening to BIPOC, both inside and outside of the Out There community

• Getting informed by educating ourselves

• Making space for and amplifying diverse perspectives, stories and experiences in the stories we tell and the people who tell them

• Diversifying our team

Ready to join in listening, learning and taking action?

Here are some Instagram accounts and hashtags we’re following, because we want to see a feed full of diverse people connecting with the outdoors. You could follow them, too:

• @outdoorafro

• @melaninbasecamp

• @the_gentleman_lumberjack

• @she_colorsnature

• @browngirl_outdoorworld

• @wecoloroutside

• #diversifyoutdoors

Here are some books we’re diving into. You could add them to your reading list, too:

• Me and White Supremacy by Layla F Saad

• Stamped from the Beginning by Ibram X. Kendi

• How to be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi

• White Fragility: Why it’s so hard for white people to talk about racism by Robin DiAngelo

Here’s what’s in our earbuds at the moment. We invite you to listen along:

• 1916 — an audio series from the NY Times about how slavery has transformed America

• Let’s Talk About Whiteness — Krista Tippett, host of On Being, interviews Eula Biss, author of “White Debt”

• Seeing White — a documentary series from Scene on Radio exploring the history and meaning of whiteness

And finally, here’s a wonderfully thorough Ally Resource Guide including a lot of suggestions on where to donate money right now. And here’s a Guide to Outdoor Allyship from Melanin Base Camp.

Photo by National Museum of African American History and Culture, Smithsonian

Beginners

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